Wow! I'm amazed at how many apparently intelligent people have suddenly become interested in my blog!
It's important, first of all, to understand my statements in my previous posting. The boundary lines that are clearly drawn in history are that those who do not accept Trinitarian theology are outside the framework of historic Christianity. That is simply objectively true. If you disagree with that statement, you simply are ignorant of the history of orthodoxy. There have always been dissenters, but they've never been considered part of the mainstream of orthodoxy.
Secondly, I made the statement that those who do not acknowledge that the Jesus of the Bible is their Lord are in grave danger. Paul's statement in Galatians 1:8-9 is very clear and pointed. He was clear that Jesus is and was fully God, and that to be outside that, and to proclaim another gospel, is to be accursed. Strong language, and dissenters must face it and deal with it.
Jesus said it best: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. . . ."All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. (John 10:1,8-9)
Third, the councils that gave rise to the great creeds, primarily the Nicene creed, were ecumenical councils, and did not give rise to the unique (and erroneous) parts of Catholic theology. Thomas Oden, in his wonderful work "The Word Of Life," (HarperSanFrancisco, 1989) clearly lines out the record of the historic councils on the matter of Christology. You'll find it very helpful.
In the fourth place, this quote from Ivankum's last post points out in a glaring and obvious way the central falsehood in this matter:
It is Trinitarians that are not satisfied with the biblical explanation of who Jesus is. Demanding that I explicitly call Jesus God when the Bible does not is not yours or anyone else’s place to do and this is why after 25 years as a Trinitarian; the scales have been removed from my eyes.
I would simply call to your remembrance that Jesus calls Himself "the Alpha and the Omega" in Rev. 22:13. He received worship, which would have been blasphemous, He claimed God as His Father, which in the Pharisees' clear understanding made Him equal with God (John 5:16-20; John 10:25-33). Jesus did not refute these statements; rather, He accepted these words as an accurate assessment. There is so much New Testament evidence of Jesus' identity as God as to overwhelm the space required to state it all.
I have posted on our website at the International House of Prayer Northwest an excerpt from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology on the Trinity and its necessity. You can access it by clicking here. Please read it, and may the Holy Spirit truly remove the scales from your eyes. Those who are blind and yet think they see are the most blind of all.
Gary Wiens
Saturday, November 20, 2010
Wednesday, November 10, 2010
Standing On Firm Foundations
Standing Firm On The Foundation Of Christ: Why It Matters What We Believe
I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who raised an interesting question. It was this: “What are your ‘brick wall’ doctrines, and what are your ‘picket fence’ doctrines?” He and I were in an interesting dialogue about the chronology of events surrounding the return of Jesus to the earth to establish His Kingdom, and though we came to different conclusions about this particular topic, it was clear that this was a ‘picket fence’ discussion.
There are, however, certain things that are not ‘picket fences,’ but are indeed the ‘brick walls,’ the foundational truths upon which the Christian faith is established. These foundation stones are eternal and essential, and must be maintained in each generation if we are in fact going to call ourselves Christian. These are the bedrock belief systems that, if you change them, you can no longer honestly call yourself part of that company that makes up historic Christianity.
One of these ‘brick wall’ realities is the nature of God as a Triune Being, one God in three Persons, with each Person – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – being eternal, fully God, yet each with His own personality and role within the Godhead. Within this Trinitarian formula falls the nature of Jesus Christ, the eternal Son, the second Person of the Trinity, who existed with the Father as the Word (Logos), and who took on humanity when He was born of the Virgin Mary. He always has been fully God, before He was human, while He was on the earth in His first visit to the planet (the Incarnation), and now as the Heavenly Man in the Father’s presence as He awaits the timing of His return to earth.
This Jesus was the agent of creation, the unique Son of God, the One who holds all things together, in Whom is life itself. He is the one Mediator between God and man, and if you attempt to change His identity you are in grave danger. The New Testament tells us that in these last days many different “Christs” will be presented, but there is only one who is true, and who is worthy of our trust and confidence. Faith in another Jesus – one not presented in the Bible – will not be sufficient for relationship with God and hope for eternal life, no matter how sincerely that faith is held.
Jesus Himself raised the issue to His disciples when He asked the question, “Who do men say that I am?” Several answers were given, and then Jesus made it personal: “Who do you say that I am?” When Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God!” Jesus declared that Peter was blessed by the Father with supernatural revelation that could not come by reasoning process or by the instruction of men. Only the Spirit of God can show us who Jesus is by revealing Him in agreement with the Scriptures. If the revelation you have received does not square with the Jesus of the apostles and the Scriptures, you need to scrap that revelation and turn to the truth as quickly as possible. In 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 we are warned that through a deception similar to what happened in the Garden of Eden, our minds may be corrupted to believe in another Jesus, one that is different from the one presented by Paul and the other writers of Scripture.
I hear many who are excited in our time because people like Glenn Beck are calling us to return to God and to Jesus for the restoration of our nation. That’s a good idea, but don’t go to Beck’s Jesus, for as a Mormon, he is talking about a different Jesus than the one the Bible speaks of. There are those who find it difficult to comprehend the Trinitarian teaching of the Scripture, so they change the nature of Jesus to make it more understandable. This is not acceptable! You end up with another Jesus, a different gospel, and leave yourself open to other levels of deception.
There are certain things to be passionate about, and this is one of them. I’m not talking about mindless acceptance – believe me, there is so much room for inquiry into the vast realms of the knowledge of the Son of God – but it must be inquiry within the boundaries, the ‘brick wall’ of the nature of Christ as revealed in the Bible. Though He is beyond comprehension, He will fascinate you and thrill you with the revelation of who He is as our Champion, our Prophet, Priest, and King.
Gary Wiens
I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who raised an interesting question. It was this: “What are your ‘brick wall’ doctrines, and what are your ‘picket fence’ doctrines?” He and I were in an interesting dialogue about the chronology of events surrounding the return of Jesus to the earth to establish His Kingdom, and though we came to different conclusions about this particular topic, it was clear that this was a ‘picket fence’ discussion.
There are, however, certain things that are not ‘picket fences,’ but are indeed the ‘brick walls,’ the foundational truths upon which the Christian faith is established. These foundation stones are eternal and essential, and must be maintained in each generation if we are in fact going to call ourselves Christian. These are the bedrock belief systems that, if you change them, you can no longer honestly call yourself part of that company that makes up historic Christianity.
One of these ‘brick wall’ realities is the nature of God as a Triune Being, one God in three Persons, with each Person – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – being eternal, fully God, yet each with His own personality and role within the Godhead. Within this Trinitarian formula falls the nature of Jesus Christ, the eternal Son, the second Person of the Trinity, who existed with the Father as the Word (Logos), and who took on humanity when He was born of the Virgin Mary. He always has been fully God, before He was human, while He was on the earth in His first visit to the planet (the Incarnation), and now as the Heavenly Man in the Father’s presence as He awaits the timing of His return to earth.
This Jesus was the agent of creation, the unique Son of God, the One who holds all things together, in Whom is life itself. He is the one Mediator between God and man, and if you attempt to change His identity you are in grave danger. The New Testament tells us that in these last days many different “Christs” will be presented, but there is only one who is true, and who is worthy of our trust and confidence. Faith in another Jesus – one not presented in the Bible – will not be sufficient for relationship with God and hope for eternal life, no matter how sincerely that faith is held.
Jesus Himself raised the issue to His disciples when He asked the question, “Who do men say that I am?” Several answers were given, and then Jesus made it personal: “Who do you say that I am?” When Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God!” Jesus declared that Peter was blessed by the Father with supernatural revelation that could not come by reasoning process or by the instruction of men. Only the Spirit of God can show us who Jesus is by revealing Him in agreement with the Scriptures. If the revelation you have received does not square with the Jesus of the apostles and the Scriptures, you need to scrap that revelation and turn to the truth as quickly as possible. In 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 we are warned that through a deception similar to what happened in the Garden of Eden, our minds may be corrupted to believe in another Jesus, one that is different from the one presented by Paul and the other writers of Scripture.
I hear many who are excited in our time because people like Glenn Beck are calling us to return to God and to Jesus for the restoration of our nation. That’s a good idea, but don’t go to Beck’s Jesus, for as a Mormon, he is talking about a different Jesus than the one the Bible speaks of. There are those who find it difficult to comprehend the Trinitarian teaching of the Scripture, so they change the nature of Jesus to make it more understandable. This is not acceptable! You end up with another Jesus, a different gospel, and leave yourself open to other levels of deception.
There are certain things to be passionate about, and this is one of them. I’m not talking about mindless acceptance – believe me, there is so much room for inquiry into the vast realms of the knowledge of the Son of God – but it must be inquiry within the boundaries, the ‘brick wall’ of the nature of Christ as revealed in the Bible. Though He is beyond comprehension, He will fascinate you and thrill you with the revelation of who He is as our Champion, our Prophet, Priest, and King.
Gary Wiens
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
Posts
